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View Poll Results: Do you think we need stricter laws that would penalize such acts of copyright infring
Yes, those who upload should be severely punished 2 1.79%
No, it's a harmless crime, the real impact of which is overblown 110 98.21%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-25-2007, 06:31 AM   #1
Snowman
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Harry Potter and copyright infringement

Digital photos of pages of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows have appeared in the Internet recently, defeating one of the strictest -- and expensive -- embargoes of any book in publishing history. Do you think we need stricter laws that would penalize such acts of copyright infringement?
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:58 AM   #2
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Considering that I can see all the pages I want to in Borders and the fact that public libraries are still around, I voted no.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:32 AM   #3
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Tough call that.. Obviously I think any site that is making money from such a thing should be in for harsh penalties.. But as Wacky mentions, the internet is not the only way to get a look at the material without cost. And can we severely punish kids who share the book around after they have read it, or take it to school and pass it round?

So yeah, tough call, I guess I am suggesting different laws for different ppl.. Which is never straightforward. I know one thing, and that is books cost a fortune these days, and I can't afford them so I wonder how many kids would. I'm not sure about this one.
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:10 PM   #4
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I voted no and agree with the comments already posted.

I actually preordered book 7 and was guaranteed I'd have it the day of release, when it didn't turn up I downloaded it ... the book didn't turn up until the other day. I justify my actions by the fact I had purchased the book anyway ... and what I did I likened to borrowing a copy off someone else. Obviously some people may have downloaded it and not bought it, although I'd reckon most Harry Potter fans will have bought it anyway.
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:31 PM   #5
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There is no middle option so I did not vote. I am not really sure, JK already makes enough money, so I don't really care about her.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:55 PM   #6
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but just to play devils advocate... If a shop has 'makes enough money' - does it make it right to go and steal a days takings from them?
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:46 PM   #7
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I read 300 pages of book 7 from those crappy photos. I still bought the book.

If there were stricter laws, publishers wouldn't get as much free publicity
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Old 08-04-2007, 09:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMan View Post
but just to play devils advocate... If a shop has 'makes enough money' - does it make it right to go and steal a days takings from them?
I wonder how much better the world might be if there were limits to how much money any one person could accumulate at once. Even then, I'm talking extremely high numbers.

I know that for most people, $10,000 would make a huge difference in the quality of their every day lives. But there is a significant portion of people on this planet who waste that or more on a weekly basis.

I don't believe it should or shouldn't happen. It's just an interesting concept to think about. If system was set up to spread the wealth around, there'd be more spending and I'm not sure the economy would suffer for it. This all assumes of course that you WORK for a living. Too many gov't programs aim to give money to the lazy and unemployable when plenty of help is needed by people who bust their asses day in and out.
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:39 PM   #9
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Umm, Isn't that called communism?

Personally, I think communism could be a great system, but it all comes back to the same thing that ruins capitalism.. Greed. Get some greedy Mofo's in charge of a communist state, and everyone is stuffed but them.

I don't know about on the ground in the USA.. But right now Down Under, Capitalism just isn't working out for the majority of people. Milk and Bread cost a bloody fortune, a Night at the movies is a big budget afair. The prices of everything only go one way, and wages just aren't going there with them.

Big corporations are posting record breaking multi billion dollar profits year after year, but the rest of us are getting slammed in every direction. It costs money just for the privalege of having a savings account, and last time I checked.. that was me lending the bank money..
Public hospitals and schools are crap, and private ones cost a living fortune. And a piece of crap copper phone line thats been around for 50 years costs me just under $40 a month to have connected to my house.

For the last decade, every descision the gov here has made has benefitted big business, and nobody else.. Its pretty bloody obvious who pays their campaign costs, and why.. I'd better stop ranting now.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:01 PM   #10
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Seems that Australia and America are more alike than I once thought.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:04 PM   #11
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I don't know that much about communism really. I don't know how the gory details of how it works. It clearly doesn't work and I think it's far too Utopian to ever be practical. All I know is that it's the human condition for far too few to have all the wealth and power and for far too many to be struggling just to make it. There is a balance somewhere here and that is what Democracy is supposed to be about.

One of the major differences in Western Capitalism is that anyone really CAN become one of the wealthy and powerful. You have to sell your soul to do it, but it can easily happen.

In the US, the AMT is sort of along the lines of what I was talking about. If you make over a certain amount, you have to give a little extra back via the AMT tax. AMT starts hitting families FAR too low and doesn't go nearly as far as it could.

There's a big debate whether or not it's fair to pay a higher percentage in taxes if you have more money. The side you're on usually depends on how much money you have.

If this were a democracy, then all the poor-middle class folk would vote to tax the wealthy at higher rates, and we'd win. There's no room for debate in democracy. It's a simple matter of majority rules. Of course, this can have serious consequences since the majority is, most of the time, very wrong about things.

So I don't know. It's all very complicated and impossible to get right.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:46 AM   #12
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I say no. As much as they'll deny it, media publishers have been 'actively' accounting for piracy ever since blank cassettes and copy machines became readily accessible to the average consumer (you'd think publishing companies would constantly and massively lobby to make copiers in public/university libraries illegal).

Without google, how many record/book companies can you think of aren't around anymore or have generated a *significant* loss in the past 20 years? As Kat Williams would say, don't worry I'll wait



Truth is, there are plenty of sales generated from people who might have otherwise been unexposed to the medium with coming into contact with a pirated form. More importantly, these bootlegs generate loyal followers of a certain band/author which will only bring more $$ in provided they keep their artists happy or their contracts prohibitive enough.


Greed sucks. If you were to consider standard of living as a benchmark or more so the bottom line, then taxing the extremely wealthy is justified as it's highly unlikely that will change one bit. Plus, that top 1% gets so many other breaks and perks the average joe isn't in a position to leverage, it's more than fair. Unfortunately, I don't think it would change much. That extra income would just get eaten up by bureaucracy, paper, process, and policy changes that would ultimately only find its way back into their pockets.

At this point, I could give a crap less if they taxed the rich more. Our welfare and medicare system is so f'd up and favors those who should not receive it, scam/abuse it, or use it to create welfare generations. As P0 said, there are honest, hardworking, natural citizens who need assistance and can't get it. My gf couldn't get financial and medical assistance for the longest time after losing several jobs to illegals who were easier to abuse and dispose and was told she wasn't eligible because at one time she had or made what they thought was too much money. Debt from a couple of hospital visits forced her to sell her apartment to pay the bills which then again somehow invalidated her.

I know the next few statements might come off harsh, but I don't think reproduction should be a right if you can't afford it. There is no way in hell I think I could afford to do it living here in nyc right now and I pull a six figure salary albeit heavily taxed one. People on assistance should be more closely monitored and sterilized before a more massive burden be placed on the rest of society, especially if you have no marketable trade, skills, or education that draws a salary beyond what could support a family of x people. You'll sure as hell not be able to develop them when you're pregnant or caring for kids all the time! I know this is the 'land of opportunity', but the possibility for change in situation like winning lotto or a lawsuit should not be justification for the freedom to keep squeezin' em out. A down on their luck teacher, freelance artist, small business owner, etc is unlikely to lose the drive that got them their talent to stay on welfare forever. I wonder if any statistics exist for these types of things.

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Old 08-10-2007, 10:29 PM   #13
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Sounds like a campaign slogan.

illmatik '08
Sterilize the poor,
for a brighter tomorrow!

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Old 08-11-2007, 07:15 AM   #14
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hehehehe thats a good one!

Seriously though, don't you guys think there's something wrong with a system that rewards you for being reproductively irresponsible? Where's the incentive to work an honest living when you can just fail upwards?

More Kids = Larger Welfare Check + More Food Stamps + No Increase in Healthcare Premium ($0.00) + Larger Home?

Where I am in Western Queens County (Astoria/Long Island City), the housing projects are sitting on the most desirable plot of land in NYC. They are all situated on the waterfront separated by beautiful parks, with the most stunning Manhattan skyline views. You would easily mistake some of the multi-high rise developments near me as a luxury apartment complex if it didn't have a NYC Department of Housing sign at its entrances. The closest project to me is about 6 mid-rise buildings with balconies separated by tree lined gardens, lawns, playgrounds, and get this....

PARKING LOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WITH RESERVED/NUMBERED SPACES SOME OF WHICH ARE COVERED!!!!!!

And to top it off, 75% of the cars parked are nicer than mine while I pay $160/month for a space that's an avenue (~0.3 Miles) away. Parking is a real hassle in many areas here, especially around me where a lot of people further north or east who aren't that close to mass transit stations park + ride out here during the work week. On top of it, they keep building these 100+ unit luxury condos/co-ops (1 bedroom of ~650sq ft easily $650,000 and $1000+ per month maintenance fees) without their own parking garages.

Yeah, yeah, I could have it much worse off.... but it could also be a lot better. The infrastructure of this town is way past critical mass at this point and you don't seem to get much for the amount that you're taxed or the premiums you pay. Transit is just f'd.. The pavement is cratered like the moon with potholes that bend rims and bottom out suspensions with the greatest of ease. My former 5 subway stop morning commute could easily burn a half hour. When I worked at a building downtown that I can see from here, the door to door commute time on the long island railroad from a town 30+ miles away would consistently beat any combination of subway routes I could take. Forget about electricity. Last year Astoria had a blackout that left many of the people, ironically enough the ones in closest proximity to the coned plant without power for close to two weeks. Since June, I have spent over $600 in gas & electric and the power is such crap quality that struggles to power my a/c (I only ran 1 unit this year).

I can't believe I'm actually lookin forward to moving back to my childhood homestead!
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:07 PM   #15
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I say 'no', too. The media companies have the extra advertising - the pirated content itself and then the media attention caused by the news agencies hearing about it. I used to live around the corner from JK Rowling. She's got a nice pad. Old Georgian house in a leafy suburb. I also know people who've met her and they reckon she's a nice person. That's irrelevant I guess, but it was merely a throw-away comment provoked by comments about capitalism. The rich aren't always bad guys, just products of our system. They can be benevolent or greedy. That's life.

Communism or Marxism is a great theoretical framework, but that's only ever what it could be except for in a single example - Cuba. Sure, they've been through some hell to get but they've got a great, free healthcare system and other benefits that we just don't have in the 'democratic' world! China isn't any example - the poor are pretty much owned by the government and the rich are exempt from pretty much everything that keeps the people down... until they pi$$ off the government, in which case they fall fast. In fact, it seems that the communist side of China is a convenient cover to keep the people down in order to run the capitalist rich side. Russia is also clearly no example to follow and Korea just hides (or attempts to hide) behind the communist tag when actually it's a dictatorship.

OK, it seems that I'm going into a rant and I don't have time so I'll end there

Take care folks,
Andrew
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #16
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Why stop with sterilization? If you can't bring home a decent 6 figure salary by the time you reach 25 you should be euthanized. I think that would be the better incentive. If you can't earn a decent living by 25 it would just be like a really late abortion anyway. It would also put a stop to illegal immigration. Kill two birds with one stone. So to speak.

BTW, I am being super sarcastic, if you can't tell then you are just plain silly.
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:13 AM   #17
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I think thats a bold plan with wideranging benefits to our drastically overcrowded societies. Less cars, Less cheap cars on the road. Less power consumed, and people who can afford to pay for clean energy. And I am sure the guy who collects the garbage would love a 6 figure salary.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:04 PM   #18
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I vote for fining the little kids that pass the book around at school

So what's next? Fingerprint secured books? If the original purchaser wants to sell his book, he would have to transmit the purchaser's fingerprints over to the publisher, and the publisher would return a special authorization code allowing the transfer to proceed. These are funky old times, ain't it
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:32 AM   #19
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Better than fingerprints... Little retinal scanners built into the books spine.

I'm sure were not far from when little plasma screen books with agressive DRM built in take over anyway.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:58 PM   #20
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even though it can get expensive, these high profile books should come with a suppository to allow the book to be read.
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